Tag Archives: Scottie Pippen

Alas, my friends.  The time has come to put a bow on Season 2 of hoopservations.com .  Hope you’ve enjoyed it as much as I have.

In closing, I think it’s appropriate to wrap up the LeBron conversation.  Assuming we have a basketball season to talk about in October, people’s opinions and perspectives on what we just WITNESSED are likely to change.  Now that the discussion is fresh, let’s do some year-end hoopserving about it.

My five-part rant generated a few comments about King James, disagreeing with my conclusions.  I’ll take them in turn:

COMMENT:  Did Magic play with Kareem and Worthy? Didn’t Clyde Drexler and some others team up with Hakeem to win? Also didn’t Malone and Payton team up with Shaq and Kobe to win a championship? Shaq played with Kobe (arguably both could be considered in the top 5 to ever play the game). Jordan and Pippen were nominated in the 50 best players ever and Jordan is arguably the best to ever play. For all the hate that everyone has against Lebron for choosing who he works with, it sums up to jealousy. Last night Van Gundy stated this and he made a great point.

RESPONSE:  We’ll start with Magic.  I’ve already blogged about this.  He won his first championship when Kareem was injured.  By the time he won the last one, Kareem was washed up.  Magic had won two before Worthy even joined the team.  In any event, it’s not like he spent 7 years failing to win with his own team and then ran to join a team with Kareem and Worthy.

Re Drexler, it’s true that he didn’t win until he joined Hakeem.  It’s also true that nobody talks about him as a top-15 player.  If you want to agree not to rank LeBron ahead of Drexler, I’ll agree that the situations are comparable.  The problem is that LeBron gets much more credit than Drexler, without credentials to warrant it.

Re Malone and Payton, yes they both joined the Lakers when they were old, after having spent their careers failing to reach the promised land.  It was lame of them.  And it didn’t work.  They still failed to win.  And nobody puts them in the top 15.  (Simmons ranked Malone #18, and Payton #40.  I’m assuming that Simmons would have to acknowledge that Wade and Dirk have both moved ahead of Malone since he published his book.)

Re Shaq and Kobe, now you’re just being silly.  The year before Shaq joined the Lakers was 95-96.  (Shaq’s stats here.)  Kobe wasn’t even in the league that year.  (Kobe’s stats here.)  So Shaq leaving Orlando for LA is not at all comparable to LeBron leaving Cleveland for Miami: one guy quit on his team to join a team that already had an established superstar, and one guy did not.

Re Jordan and Pippen… ah, I’m not gonna go there.  Already done that.

Re “it sums up to jealousy,” now you’re not even making sense.  I’m fat, slow, and can’t jump.  As a result, I’m jealous of all the guys in the NBA.  Even Brian Cardinal.  Hell, I’m jealous of some dude named Tim whom I met at the park, because he was able to complete a reverse lay-up without twisting his ankle.  There’s a reason why LeBron is the source of my anger, and it has nothing to do with jealousy.

COMMENT:  Lebron should be applauded and emulated. Lets look at some of the positives he has done verse others in our beloved sport – he actively sought out Warren Buffet. He took the power of making his professional life more fulfilling. Don’t we all do this when we search for a new job or career?

RESPONSE:  I don’t follow the Warren Buffet thing.  Regarding the idea of “we all do this,” it’s true that we all try to make our lives as fulfilling as possible.  It’s also true that we aren’t all in the discussion for being one of the top 15 basketball players of all time.  Thus, if I go to work for an established organization, it’s probably because I want to make a few more bucks or have a bit more job security — not because I’ve taken the easy way out on the quest for greatness.

COMMENT:  He has two kids with the same woman and has never been accused of negative or illegal activities. So far he has embraced being a role model. He plays team first basketball – what he loves passing – the horror. He loves playing defense – don’t follow that habit.

RESPONSE:  I have one kid with the same woman, and have embraced being a role model.  I’m still not in the conversation for top 15 basketball players of all time.  Bruce Bowen loved playing defense.  He isn’t, either.

COMMENT:  I hope Lebron wins, dances, and then Miami throws a party even more out there then their intro party. When this happens you will see me in the middle of it. Don’t hate because our game is captivating and beautiful to watch.

RESPONSE:  I hope you enjoyed the party.

COMMENT:  That is definitely the most credit you’ve given LeBron that I’ve read. Almost, for a second, sounded as if you liked him- but then I kept reading. Although I always enjoy your posts, I’m going to disagree with something you wrote (surprise)- I do not think Lebrons decision to go to Miami was cowardly- at all. He did what anyone would do to get ahead in his job, further his career and achieve the ultimate goal. He has taken ridiculous amounts of abuse from every city around and has held his head high through it all. He is a leader and has not tried to steal the spotlight at all. He has his eyes on the prize as does the rest of the Miami Heat players.  If he was wearing a USA jersey for the Olympics the country would be cheering for him.

RESPONSE: When LeBron decides to play for Team USA, it’s not like he’s looking at 30 different options and choosing the one that represents the easiest path to a title.  Team USA happens to represent the easiest path to a gold medal, but it’s not like LeBron chooses to be on Team USA instead of other teams.  He’s on Team USA because he’s an American citizen.

Now, before closing out the season, let’s summarize why LeBron is so disliked:

* He came into the league with more hype than any other player.  This isn’t necessarily his fault, but he certainly added fuel to the fire.  He tattooed “Chosen 1” on his body.  He wore the number 23.  His nickname is King James.  His ad campaign says “We Are All Witnesses.” Clearly, he was trying to be something other than just an ordinary superstar.  (For some perspective, remember that other dudes near his level have nicknames like “Durantula,” and ad campaigns about falling down 7 times and getting up 8, or something like that.)  With so much hype and such an oversized personality, things were destined to come crashing down eventually if he failed to win a title.

*  For years, he fought sports gravity.  The general rule in sports is that people root for their own teams.  They sometimes become fans of guys on other teams, but rarely in mass numbers.  For the first few years of his career, LeBron was a phenom, and people generally rooted for him.  Then, about the time he stopped getting the benefit of the doubt as a result of being a phenom, his free agency was approaching. Fans of multiple teams thought they were getting him, so, instead of rooting against him like they ordinarily would, they rooted for him, almost as if he was one of their own players.  This, too, was destined to lead to a backlash, for reasons that are not necessarily LeBron’s fault.

*  “The Decision,” and the following celebration, were both obnoxious.  If these were the only reasons people had to dislike LeBron, people would have gotten over them eventually.  But they weren’t the only reasons.

*  Even if he hadn’t done the stupid tv show or celebration, the decision (lower-case letters) to go to Miami was infuriating.  At the end of the day, ignoring everything else, he had to decide where to continue his career, and he made the unprecedented choice of trying to pursue greatness while taking a backseat to a superstar who had already established himself.  Millions of people (including me) see it as an act of cowardice, and don’t want him to be rewarded for it.

All of that said, it’s true that he hasn’t committed a crime and that, by all accounts, he’s a good family man off-the-court.  So, nothing he has done is irreversible.  Reversing the negative feelings about him, though, will be very difficult, because now he’s stuck on Wade’s team.  Now that people have woken up to what he did, there might be a ceiling on the amount of credit he’ll get, even if he does everything right and the team wins.  It will be hard for him to reverse things very quickly because the team would be excellent without him.  Decisions, though, have consequences, and that is the consequence of The Decision.

As far as human dramas go, it’s really quite fascinating.  I know that I’ll be watching next year, to see how he responds (assuming there’s a season!!).

Until then, enjoy the off-season, hoopservers!!!

1 Comment:

  • Jones

    Although we will always just have to agree to disagree on LeBron, I love reading your blog- both for your opinions & for all of the great and informative stats & info. It says a lot for your writing if I am a proud Miami Heat fan yet still look forward to reading Hoopservation next season. :)

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The rant continues to develop.  In the meantime, as promised yesterday, here is a comparison of LeBron’s performance this year with Michael Jordan’s accomplishments.  For those who don’t feel like reading a bunch of stats, here’s a quick summary of the comparison:  There’s no comparison.  None whatsoever.

Those who want to see the numbers are encouraged to continue reading.

Where to begin?  Well, the notion, endorsed by LeBron defenders, that LeBron’s accomplishments are comparable to Jordan’s is based on the idea that Jordan “had Pippen and Grant.”  Pippen and Grant, Wade and Bosh.  6 of one, half-dozen of another.  Or so the thinking goes.

Preposterous.

Before either of them ever played with LeBron, Bosh and Wade each had a long list of accomplishments.  To name a few:

Wade:  Led Marquette to the Final Four (2003), won NBA Finals MVP (2006), NBA Scoring Champion (2009), 6 time NBA All-Star (2005-2010), 2-time All-NBA First Team (2009, 2010), 2-time All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2006), All-NBA Third-Team (2007), 3-time All-Defense Second Team (2005, 2009, 2010).  (Again, thank you wikipedia for the info.)

Bosh: 5-time NBA All-Star (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011), All-NBA Second Team (2007).  (Info here.)

In contrast, when Jordan first got Pippen as a teammate, Pippen’s big accomplishment was that he was a consensus NAIA All-American at Central Arkansas. Horace Grant’s big accomplishment when he first became Jordan’s teammate was that he played at Clemson University.

Measuring the accomplishments of Wade / Bosh before they teamed with LeBron against the accomplishments of Pippen / Grant before they teamed with Jordan isn’t completely fair, because Pippen and Grant joined Jordan’s team as rookies.  So, let’s take a broader view.  Horace Grant’s highest scoring average for any season during his career is 15.1 ppg.  (Here are his stats.)  He averaged 10 rebounds or more twice.  Bosh has already averaged more than 15.1 ppg 7 times, and more than 10 rebounds per game 3 times.  (Here.)  Wade has averaged more points per game than 15.1 every single year of his nine-year career.  (Here.)

Scottie Pippen averaged more than 20 ppg four different times.  (Here are his stats.)  He averaged more than 8 rebounds per game twice.  He averaged more than 6 assists three times.  Bosh has already averaged more than 20 ppg five times, and more than 8 rebounds seven times.  Wade has already averaged more than 20 ppg eight times, and more than 6 assists six times.

And, yes, I know all about Pippen’s defensive prowess.  Wade’s pretty good at D, too, don’t ya’ think?

Enough about the accomplishments of the teammates.  Let’s look at MJ and LeBron themselves.  There are so many different ways to demonstrate that MJ’s accomplishments dwarf LeBron’s that it’s hard to know which numbers to look at.  I’ll do it this way: look at MJ’s numbers during his first championship run, and compare them to LeBron’s run this year.

During his first championship run, the lowest point total Jordan had in a single playoff game was 22.  I kid you not.  Check it here.  He had 25 or more 16 times.  As for assists, his lowest game was 5.  He had 7 or more 12 times.

Looking at LeBron’s Game Log from this year’s playoffs, we see that his lowest point total is 15.  He had fewer than 22 points – Jordan’s low, remember – 4 times.  He had 25 or more 7 times.  As for assists, his lowest game was 2.   He had 7 or more twice.

I could do this for hours, but, at this point, it’s just piling on.  Game, set, match.

Hopefully nobody’s going to say that LeBron is approaching Jordan’s greatness, or I’m going to have to pick this back up.

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